HMForces.co.uk

The youth of today have to many rights and these should be taken away from them after all they're children and should not make there own choices until they can prove they're adults. Service will sort the wheat from the chaff.

Other countries have systems of national service where the individual has a choice of Military or Civil service. Examples of civil service are jobs such as Hospital porters, street cleaners, general duties such as cleaners and labourers with Fire Brigades, Police and Ambulance services. The admin and reporting including discipline run by a Military stlye Center who also organizes training and basic drill type events to bond these people together. Faliure to attend would mean withdrawal of all state benefits. There will of course be those who decide that these jobs would be the future for them and would then be recruited into Police Fire and other services.

The proportion of young people in England not in education, employment or training has increased to more than one in 10, according to the latest figures: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8102456.stm

Some kind of national service seems to be a solution. But haven't people been saying this is too expensive? It's more expensive giving them a giro for nothing I thinkg. 

Re firewall's comments,

my suggestion was to restrict to camp for 6 months for the reasons he gives, a dry camp, no booze on site, nothing more addictive than coffee, tea, lemonade, etc. Ideally a camp in the middle of nowhere  20 miles past the back of beyond. No outside contact except through the censored post. about the same rules as a P.O.W. CAMP WITH SLIGHTLY BETTER FOOD. If they can cook it.  ???????  I AM SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH UNEMPLOYED SERVICEMEN TO PATROL THE PERIMETERS.  3 eight hour shifts. servicemen back in work and thugs contained, and the jolly old R.S.M. TO KEEP THEM ENTERTAINED.

Good plan I think, Not TOO harsh is it ????????????

Yes there is my friend - solitary confinement. Look if kids don't do as they're told they have to be segregated so that they can reflect.

This is still done in youth affending institutions so surely can be done in this supposed National service scheme the Tories (sic)  will introduce.

I totally agree with rainbow well said m8

I believe that if youngsters leave school and don't have a guaranteed apprenticeship or have gone on for further education then they should do 12 months National Service (or similar).

I understand the feeling about being 'professional' and I totally agree, but if they have some kind of military training and all that goes with it then at least they won't go an active service as they will be under 18 years old.

.....In the same breath I think there should be compulsary 'Bad Lads Army' for young offenders...without the option of leaving till they have done their time.....(time added on if they are jailed!)

I like the American 'Boot camp' idea

Absolutely not.

We have arguably the most disciplined and professional military in the world. Over vast areas of the planet, people know that the appearance of a British soldier on the scene is the end of their problems for a while. If we force the scroats you see hanging round the shops on the estate, slagging off all who pass, into uniform, that will change quick smart. Yes other countries have conscription. Now show me which conscripted military commands the same respect as our boys and girls?

I think somthing similar to national service should be a option for judges for those who break the law. Prision today is too much like a holiday camp. But i think it would be a big disrepect for the troops already serving if they were part of the regular army.

What Charles says make sense but it needs to be at least 2 years some ot these kids need a backlog of discipline because they have never had any at all.

2 years under the jolly old Santa like R.S.M. they will think it's Christmas every day, with his merry HO ! HO! HO!

If that doesn't work the leaky boat can always remain an option.

I was thinking of the prison bill - it would be a much cheaper option than keeping the little thugs in the lap of luxury - would probably bring it down to 10% of what it costs now and I am sure the Armed services and use the other 90% of the millions spent on the thugs to far greater effect.

The sercices should not have to be treated  worse than the local dustman - who although does a very good job - are better eqipped for that job than the man or woman on active service. - there has got to be somerthing wrong with that

 This is a real difficult one, I read the posts and find I agree with most of the arguments for AND against. I guess a middle ground would be my choice but I'm not sure where that is exactly. I think there is no doubt that a term or two in the forces would do the majority of those wasters a power of good BUT I can also see where a serving member wouldn't want to be serving alongside them either!

But as I can't really see conscription coming back, then I guess we have to look at the prison system and stop making it such a soft option! In Florida I commented that there was no litter on the interstate highway and was told that the prisoners are brought out and made to pick up all the rubbish...sounds like a good idea to me or something similar...

rainbow says ...

The Tommy Chronicles.

And it came to pass, that Thomas son of Atkins , in his eighteenth year,  was called upon from the dwelling place of his forefathers to attend the great holy pilgrimage called  "national Service"    and he was sore afraid, !     It was amid great wailing and beating of breasts that Thomas didst  depart for the holy place called "camp".   and after journeying far into the wilderness  did finally reach the fabled land of "Catterick",               Thomas did humbly approach the guardians of this  exalted place who were called provo staff,......   and they didst fall upon him savagely  and reviled him greatly for his haircut/ dress/ accent /name,         they then directed him to a lowly dwelling place called "transit block" and there he encountered many novices awaiting this great adventure,     And they were loud of voice and crude of manner  and spake in many strange tongues,   there were the " ochayethenoos"  from the far north,  the "hawaythelads"  from the east, and from the mysterious dark lands came the  " ayoops"            but strangest of all,  from   the far south came the "wochercocks"      It then came to pass that this gathering was conducted to the great feasting  hall called cookhouse  where they did recieve a thing called "scoff"      and it did not resemble anything before eaten,        It was during this repast that the high priest called orderly officer did move slowly amongst the throng intoning the evening dirge " any complaints? any complaints?                  So thomas did did lay down his weary head with great yearning for the bosom of his family and kin     and was sorely downcast.     

                                                                                                                    Here endeth this first chronicle                     Amen

Yer spake one Devon accent  "THESE SPUDS BE FROOOOOOOSTED"

nolimits says ...

Although we can't have the frankly useless riff-raff of the front-line in afghvanistan, where they would just endanger the lives of our curren troops,  Maybe naional service without the frontlihe action would be a better idea?? call it a short sharp shock

This is true - "one willing volunteer is worth ten pressed men" - so for today's national servicethmen (if it is brought back) the front-line is not an option.  The national servicemen of 1939 - 1960 had more respect for authority and experienced more real  hardship than today's pampered youth.  In those days there were  four pillars holding up society.

1) The extended family: mum, dad, grand-parents, aunts, uncles - and neighbours ect. helped to socialise children and young people. 

2)  The school:  teachers were allowed to teach, discipline and correct unacceptable behaviour (with corporal punishment if necessary)

3) The Church: The Church still provided moral guidance and reinforced the notion of right and wrong.

4)The Law: courts had the will and the power to enforce the law; approved schools, borstal, prison, capital punishment ect

With the erosion of these four pillars, soctiety has been weakened considerably - we have disfunctional families, single-parents, ferral children, disaffected youth and a social culture dependent on alcohol, drugs and violence.

 National Service on its own is not the answer, the social, educational and  legal issues must also be addressed.  National Service, however can provide young people with challenges to stretch their physical and intellectual abilities, provide training in the discipline and skills to meet those challenges, provide them with a sense of belonging, recognition and achievement.  Young people need to learn that 'freedom' does not mean "doing whatever you like."   Also, rights have attendant responsibilities and respect needs to be earned. 

extraman says ...

rmn58 says ...

 This is a real difficult one, I read the posts and find I agree with most of the arguments fAND against. I guess a middle ground would be my choice but I'm not sure where that is exactly. I think there is no doubt that a term or two in the forces would do the majority of those wasters a power of good BUT I can also see where a serving member wouldn't want to be serving alongside them either!

But as I can't really see conscription coming back, then I guess we have to look at the prison system and stop making it such a soft option! In Florida I commented that there was no litter on the interstate highway and was told that the prisoners are brought out and made to pick up all the rubbish...sounds like a good idea to me or something similar...

 

I saw prisoners clearing the highway in Pensylvannia or Viginia.  Perhaps National Service could take the form of work that would benefit the Nation but nobody wants to do it or is considered too labour intensive-why pay social security benefits for nothing - surely the army of the unemployed is more labour intensive and expensive?

 

Couldn't agree more,Extra!  ( I also think the benefits should be cut in some cases)  Unless someone cannot, genunely work for medical reasons, then unemployment benefit should include some form of community work which is worthwhile and not demeaning eg .helping disabled with their gardens? Or similar. Prisoners should do the pcking up of litter etc...and there's plenty of it in this country!!!!  I also think some of the sickness benefits need looking at, I currently engage with clients, who, in all honesty, do not NEED the extra money due to their illness, the money makes NO difference to their prognosis or well being at this time..it's just an automatic payment...for what?  I have worked with clients who have actually worked out that what they get in benefits, not paying rent etc..is equivalent to earning £18,000 per year!!!!! Just slightly less than a newly qualified Staff Nurse!!!! And they actually said ..."who's the mug? You or me?"!

Back to the original topic ( sorry) would the various Cadets be a model to use instead of conscription? A similar set up, compulsory for say two years, and within that "service" they combine doing some voluntary work within the local community? The young people are now "paid" to attend school so why not combine it with attending some form of military/voluntary agency?